Speaker 1: (00:07)
Don't do dares a copywriting webinar. Yay, . We're so happy to have you all here, uh, and join in on today. We know you guys are coming in from all over. We've been watching the chat and you guys are blowing that up, so we encourage you to keep doing that. Send those gifts networks, we love to see it. Um, yeah, let's get into this.
Speaker 2: (00:30)
All right,
Speaker 1: (00:32)
Um, there we go. All right, so before I get to introduce you to our speaker today, I got ahead of myself already. There we go. We have some housekeeping stuff to, uh, go over really quick. So please close any heavy bandwidth apps. If you're trying to watch Netflix at the same time as this, I do admire your ability to multitask, but it just won't work. Um, if you wanna take this chat out of the webinar, uh, head over to Twitter. Uh, Ali is standing by and ready to respond and have a conversation with you all. And please don't forget to use the hashtag Hoot Essentials. And lastly, if you have a question, don't wait till the end to ask it. Please put it in the q and a tab and we'll get to it. Now, for the fun part, I'd like to introduce you to our speaker today. Uh, Kate Bradley Sureness, like furnace. Um, one of the coolest CEOs and a former rock roll dj. So Kate is the founder and CEO of Lately AI and a Copywriting Pro. Um, I mean, just go check out her socials and you'll know exactly what I meet. Uh, Kate also owned a marketing agency, which got Walmart a one 30%, 130% ROI year over year for three years. So a very, very impressive individual, I might say. So. Kate, welcome everyone. Say hi to Kate.
Speaker 2: (02:04)
Hi, everybody. Hey, Trish. Great job on the intro. It's great to see you, of course. And everybody else. What's up? I'm Ridge New York, not New York City. I'm up up a couple hours, the Hudson Valley. And, um, it's kind of gray out here today. It was smoking hot for like steaming hot like the rest of the country for a little while there. But, um, I love the weather. I love to know where you guys are. I mean, it's been amazing reading all that, so, so don't be shy in the chat. Um, I'll do my best to kind of navigate that with Trish. The way it's gonna roll here is I'll do a quick intro, kind of give you guys some, um, raison to et around, you know, what we're doing today. Then I'll do a few tips. Then I'll check in with Trish and the chat, see if we can answer any questions.
Speaker 2: (02:51)
There's the q and a section and all that stuff. Hi, Hudson Valley. Um, hey, Michigan, Albany. Look at my people in the New York, right on Switzerland is just crazy. Um, Texas, yes, Naples. Oh my God. All right. So that's how it's gonna roll. We'll, we'll break for some chats and then do some rules. Now you guys have access to these slides as we go through. I'm gonna talk to you about a rule, show you an example, and I'm gonna read the examples out loud and take some time with each one of them, and you're gonna start to see that all the rules are gonna connect as we go along, right? Trisha, you ready?
Speaker 1: (03:29)
You ready? Am so ready, everybody else. So ready for this.
Speaker 2: (03:32)
All right. Washington, dc I still have a 2 0 2 area code on my cell phone, by the way, people, Portugal. Yes. Okay. It's, it's hard to be distracted. Okay, here we go. So, , uh, what is lately, uh, so lately is the company that I'm the CEO of. This is how I know Trish and Stacy and everyone at Hootsuite. We use artificial intelligence to learn what words will get you the most engagement, and then repurpose any long form content. So it could be video or blogs or podcasts into dozens of social posts that contain those words. So words are what I'm into, right? That's what we're gonna talk about today, is how do you come up with the right words and, and why does it matter? And, and when should you use them and when shouldn't you. So we're gonna touch on all that stuff. What's up, Ontario? Hey, bc. All right. So onto the next one. Okay? Um, so here's something really important to know. Companies waste 400 billion Trish billion with a B on bad writing each year alone. That's a huge number. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: (04:33)
Lot of money.
Speaker 2: (04:34)
It's just crazy, right? Like, it's so interesting that people think of writing as this soft skill that everybody can do, but guess what, you know, they can't do. So congratulations, fellow English majors. Looks like we chose the right path. People used to make fun of us, right?
Speaker 1: (04:50)
Not anymore.
Speaker 2: (04:51)
Not anymore.
Speaker 1: (04:52)
Not anymore.
Speaker 2: (04:53)
What's kind of crazy is that writing goes across the, the company, right? It doesn't matter if you're in marketing or sales, or if you're in engineering or accounting. Everyone has to write to communicate with each other. And because of that, companies are actually spending, um, 3.1 billion on remedial writing, training, sending you back to school for writing. Awful. Mm-hmm. . Who wants to do that, right? That sounds terrible to me. We're not doing it. Not you. Nobody does. All right? So
Speaker 1: (05:21)
No one here today is .
Speaker 2: (05:24)
Let, like, let me move to the slides aren't like working for me. Why not? They're a bit
Speaker 1: (05:29)
Slow. They're a little
Speaker 2: (05:30)
Slow. They're slow. Okay? Hopefully I didn't like overdo it. All right? So these rules that we're gonna go over are the same rules that we use at are at lately. It's called Lately because, um, I'm a huge fan of Van Morrison, pre Covid and all his wackiness there. So have, have I told you that you love me lately? Um, the rules at lately get us a 98% sales conversion, okay? It's not a laughing number. And I'm gonna show you guys exactly how to do this by hand. Now, AI is nice, but to be honest, this is the, this is how it actually works. So we're gonna do this like behind the scenes, these are the same rules that grew our revenue 240% in 12 months as well, right? So this stuff works. It's what I'm telling you, it works. Okay? All right. Here we go.
Speaker 2: (06:19)
Da, da da, da, da. Just waiting on the slides to get going. Hiker, I like it. Yes, Joe. Shish is right. Come on, come on. Communications from Canada here as well. All right. So this is rule number one. This is my favorite rule actually, and I'm gonna do a special shout out to women who are here because I feel like this is something we suffer from the most, which is undercutting ourselves with weak words. So I want you to write like a boss. The confidence is everything, right, Trish? Like, it's how you absolutely. How you wear it, yes. Mm-hmm. , it's not how you write. It's not, it's not, it's not how you write, it's how you write it. That doesn't make sense. It's not what you write, it's how you write it. I got a typo in our own flight there. So you wanna write like you own me, okay?
Speaker 2: (07:02)
Don't undercut your own authority. Everything about sales and marketing is about getting somebody to do what you want them to do, okay? This is about communications in general. It doesn't matter if you want your husband to take out the trash or your son or daughter to do their homework or your marketing manager to turn in the email copy for the newsletter, right? All communications comes down to exactly that. Get people to do what you want them to do. They have to trust you to do that. And if you don't have the authority in place, then they're not going to. So these weak words, like need a needy team is needy. Think so You don't think, you know, right? See the difference there? Mm-hmm. , I just wanted to say something, right? See how weak that is? Probably, maybe, possibly. Oh yeah. It's not that you can't use these words.
Speaker 2: (07:53)
It's not, they don't, they don't have a place. They have a great place, honestly, in customer service a lot, because when you put yourself, uh, in the apologetic role, which you have to do a lot in customer service, those reports come in very handy. Yeah. Okay. Totally. So that's the first rule, and we're gonna move very quickly here, folks, as best as we can. Um, so here's the example and try to zoom in, but I'm gonna read everything else. And again, you can, I'll read it all out loud and you can reference these in the doc session. So, right, like a boss. Here's an example. Marketing is like brushing your teeth with an electric toothbrush. Yes, the head moves on its own, but you still have to hold the brush work required humans plus machines more on how AI and humans must both be part of the equations, right?
Speaker 2: (08:37)
So you guys can see there's gonna be a few things we're gonna call out here from each slide. In this case, I'm making a series of statements, Trish, right? Mm-hmm. . So you can see that marketing is like brushing your teeth. I'm using my, my simile there and saying, it's, it's like, it's not kind of like, it is like, and then yes, the head moves on its own. It's another statement, but you still have to hold the brush, okay? Mm-hmm. still have to hold, is all capital letters. Cuz I really want you to understand like, hey, dingys, like this is part of the deal here, right? So I'm, I'm looking for some reaction. Obviously the next thing I'm doing is I'm actually following up these statements even with the hashtags. So work required, humans, plush ma machines, see that. And then also even in my call to action more on how AI and humans must both be part of the equation there.
Speaker 2: (09:33)
So there's a lot piled in. Guys can digest that in a little bit. And, um, we are gonna just gonna keep going on to the next slide and the next rule. Mm-hmm. . All right. Awesome. So this one, I'm already going to embarrass everybody. I was telling people that I'm, I'm, I'm, I offend people often with this particular rule. Are you ready? Yeah. Yeah. , we all do it. It's check out. Check out is the worst. So check out my blog, check out this podcast, check out my meal. Whatever it is. This is the most vapid, lazy call to action on the planet. Please, for the love of all that is, you know, chocolate sprinkled, creamy ice cream, stopping its words. Okay? So I want you guys to remove this phrase from your vocabulary. And there's some very good reasons why. Number one, we have an entire dictionary of wonderful words that you can access that thesaurus is your best friend, obviously.
Speaker 2: (10:33)
And you wanna choose words that actually describe what would happen. Should I click the link specifically, or, or should I, you know, check out the blog or whatever it is. Um, sorry, blogs I'm picking on you today. And the reason is, is because , when you don't do that, it's perceived as spammy, number one. Well, what's gonna happen if I click this link? Now? I'm questioning it. I'm questioning your authority, right? The trust is going out the window here, number one. And I don't have an understanding of if this is worth my time. Like, it sounds to me like you're tricking me, right? And it's, it's also very lazy. You don't have time to like, take a moment to give me some clue about what, what's actually happening here. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: (11:15)
, or come up with a better call to action.
Speaker 2: (11:17)
Yeah. Anything like something that actually means something. It's like, it's like awesome, right? I mean, I say awesome all the time, as in America we do, it's like the catchall word for everything and it's meaningless. We've killed this word like altogether. So here's, um, what, what I do instead of use checkout and other things as well, about to record the next edition of scaling Your Startup with me, hack and Jason, I even brushed my hair. Subscribe to your a few copywriting tricks that I haven't shared before. So what I do is, I actually, in this case, I'm just using subscribe, it's very easy, but you're gonna see the no call, call to action come up a few times where I avoid it altogether. Um, so here though, I wanna break down a lot of what's happening, subscribe to hear a few copywriting tricks. Now I'm purposely saying that I haven't shared before, cuz it's a course that I give often.
Speaker 2: (12:10)
So I'm looking to learn, you know, some kind of element of mystery there. I'm also doing a couple of other things here, and I'm gonna break all of these down as we go, but there's visual effects happening. You could hear me read the parentheses as, um, an aside, right? Which is how they read mm-hmm. . And so I'm really breaking up a lot of this here. I'm using humor. I'm trying to give myself and give you a piece of myself so you understand that I'm a human, so that you wanna hang out with me, that you wanna come to this course Yeah. And learn from me, right? Adding
Speaker 1: (12:45)
A little personality to it is never a bad thing.
Speaker 2: (12:47)
Yeah. A little personality. I mean, you know, Trish and I, we've talked a few times, like I already know that I wanna hang out with her , but it's because like, she's also really good at doing this. Like, just giving, you know, just a little bit enough of yourself that makes people, um, you know, want, want to just learn more, right? Yeah. So we're gonna talk you out. Yeah. They, they, they wanna check you out. There you go. All right. So I'm just gonna be, and sorry everybody, and sorry Trish, just, I'm just gonna railroad through these because we gotta, I gotta move kind of quickly. Um, so this one is, is a favorite one that I'm also guilty of. And it's don't bury the lead like the lead story, right? The lead idea, something that we often do because we were taught to do it in school, right?
Speaker 2: (13:34)
You've writing an essay, you've got your first introductory paragraph, and then you, your ideas. And it's not till the end where you like have this aha of what you're really trying to say. You put it all together. So we don't work that way anymore in communication. That aha has to come first because everyone is, um, distracted and we have no, no patience and no time. So you have to get, get to the point right away. You want a 86 preambles and really also lean on the verb. So for example, I often find if you take out the first five, four or five words and start where the verb is, and then turn the verb into an active verb, you'll get a statement which lends authority and, um, kinda get rid of the fluffy there. So I'll show you how some of this happens when you have that verb.
Speaker 2: (14:21)
It also becomes a command by, by default. And so you get a CTA out of it. And again, it's, it's trust and, and, and authority in all these things. So what I like to say is vomit and then edit. It's the best way to do this. You wanna get everything out on the page and then go ahead and make these edits that we're talking about today. So, um, and we can run, run, I'll, I'll bounce back and forth and touch on like, you know, where they are. But this is the idea about, um, I'm just not making any sense right now. Hold on cuz I'm distracted by this amazing chat. You guys are people. Amazing. You're so hilarious. Um, yes, you threw out Brandon. All right, so the vomit and edit is get it out in the page and then think about what I can remove and what I can change.
Speaker 2: (15:07)
Um, so let me just go to the next slide. I'm human. If you literary vomit, literally vomit, then you have some real problems, I think. Is that Mike who asked that question? Right? So here we go. Don't worry. The lead is your LinkedIn company page hem a turd. We'll cover how to fix that plus how often to post when not to tag video, the bane of personal page analytics plus the kitchen sink today at 2:00 PM east may the fourth be with you. So a lot's happening here. Don't bury the lead. I'm telling you exactly what's going to happen if you come to this workshop on LinkedIn right now. I'm starting it out with a question, which is a great way to start anything. And I'm doing it to try to get you to right away think, well, is my LinkedIn company page occurred? Like, I want you to have that feeling of like, oh my God, maybe it is even mine is, to be honest with you, it just happens.
Speaker 2: (16:03)
I want you to laugh, obviously, but I'm saying exactly what's gonna happen. We're gonna talk about how often to post. Everybody always wants to know about cadence. When do you not tag someone on LinkedIn? Let's talk about video, let's talk about personal page analytics, which are so annoying. Everything else, right? Um, you can also see, again, I'm using those visuals. It's not just emojis, but the plus sign, the minus sign, the all capital letters. It was Star Wars day. So, so I've got made the fourth be be with you in there as well. It's a lot of, um, different kind of things to happen. So Carla asks a good question, I just wanna stop and grab this. She asks, how do you tell stories without the lead? It's not without the lead, it's just rearranging the lead, Carla, right? You wanna leave mystery in there so you can actually say what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: (16:54)
But you can do it in a way where there's, um, little sexiness. It's not vagueness, but it's a little dot, dot dot, right? So in this particular example, we've got some kitchen sink as the dot, dot dot, the question mark is sort of doing that as well. Like, you can tell what you're gonna get in this, you know, bag of groceries, but you're not really exactly sure what, what, um, meal I'm going to make, let's say. Okay? Um, so let's go to, to another one and see if I can't squeeze this in here. All right? So negative calls to action, this is a great one, and it can be misunderstood. So I wanna clarify. I don't mean be negative online. That's not what I mean. What I mean is think about the calls to action and how they're phrased. So remember is a is the positive, the negative is don't forget.
Speaker 2: (17:49)
See that mm-hmm. . When you use a negative call to action, people respond almost 30% more. Part of the reasons they do that is because it taps into this childlike kind of thing where we, we feel bad like we did something wrong. Okay? So it's very tricky and it's a great way, it's a great little thing to use. Don't believe me. See what I did there. Okay? So I want you to think about how you can do that and what you're, what you're writing in general. So I'll give you an example. Preach words are the DNA of every sales pitch. The wrong words are costing companies 400 billion in the US alone. Don't let that be. You. Join WA three 18 for a freeing course, and then the link, okay? So let's break this one down. Negative calls to action. So I'm saying don't let that be you, right?
Speaker 2: (18:43)
That's that one. Now you see, I, I'm barely using a call to action there at all. It is joined me for the course, but the don't let is actually part of it because I'm making you quickly feel the FOMO there, right? Mm-hmm. , I'm also using the word wrong. There's the, there's negativity in that word, right? Trish? Mm-hmm. . And when even just saying the word wrong again, you cr and you think, oh my God, is my company using the wrong words? So I'm making you put your yourselves in the shoes here. There's this, the sympathy, empathy kind of component happening. Now, also at the beginning I started out with a statement. Words are the DNA of every sales page. And then another statement, the wrong words are comp costing companies 400 billion bucks. So again, authority, you could say it's all happening there. Mm-hmm. , someone was asking about spacing in the chat and yeah, it's all here, right?
Speaker 2: (19:40)
Like, I actually don't use spaces per se, like as in a full line set, um, in, cuz you can do that on Twitter and LinkedIn. Now, I don't know if you can do it on Facebook, um, but I find that a waste of time and people are trying to like hide what they're saying behind the more dot, dot dot. I feel like that is deceiving and it actually undercuts your authority and makes it look like you're trying to sell me something, right? So like, just let the words be the words. However, the, the things that you can use, we're gonna touch on visuals a little bit further down here, but while we're here, we've got inline hashtags. They're not at the end. You can see that with the link that's here. I don't say click this link to sign up, right? I don't have to say that it's already implied. So I want you to think a lot about what is implied already and what you're saying. And if that's part of the message, let the char take the characters out. Like lower your character count, which also by the way, makes your trust go way, way up. 84 characters are the, or less is the, the rule for like the highest sharing post. If you don't believe me, I have one that was 84 characters and I got, um, over 85,000 views on, on um, LinkedIn.
Speaker 1: (21:05)
So anyway, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: (21:07)
Yeah, thank you. So less characters are good and any way you can, um, make people feel inclusive, like they're in on the joke
Speaker 1: (21:16)
Is,
Speaker 2: (21:17)
Um, another way to kind of make that engagement even higher. So I just, I just put a lot in there. Okay,
Speaker 1: (21:27)
, all good stuff. All good stuff.
Speaker 2: (21:30)
Yeah. So, and Mickey, we're not caught talking about manipulation. I just wanna really address that. So Mickey says you don't have to manipulate your audience by pulling on their kid mentality with negative call to actions. You certainly don't, but I have a 98% sales conversion. So if you want a 98% sales conversion, I would recommend using these tricks. And it's not manipulation. All communication is about getting something done, getting people to do what you want them to do. I want people to buy my stuff, right? I want people to come to my copywriting course and the way to do it is absolutely to pull on their heartstrings and there's a bunch of different strings to pull on,
Speaker 1: (22:06)
Right? Right.
Speaker 2: (22:08)
Okay. So I don't think we need to break for questions cuz I'm, I'm getting them as we go. Is that okay with you Trish? If we just kind of keep rolling on here?
Speaker 1: (22:18)
Yeah, let's keep doing it. Yeah. Just a reminder, everyone, if you do have a question, please put it in the q and a tab, uh, because that's where we're gonna be looking over to see all of your wonderful questions. So if you're writing them in the public chat, just throw them in the q and a cuz I've seen a couple that I, I don't want to, uh, miss.
Speaker 2: (22:34)
Okay, cool.
Speaker 1: (22:34)
But anyway, thank you. I we keep going.
Speaker 2: (22:37)
All right, so we'll, we'll, we'll keep going and then when I feel like we're in a good buffer zone, we'll try to pop over to QA land . Um, sounds good. All right. So I'm waiting for the slide to go. Next slide. Come on, baby. Right? How are you guys doing? Everybody out there in, in chat land? Everybody's good? Good. Yeah. All right. Um, everybody see my poster in the back? You're loving it. That's real. Made a velvet. Remember like those velvet posters?
Speaker 1: (23:07)
Oh, really? Oh, wow. I, I wasn't there in the eighties, but, uh, , . Let's see
Speaker 2: (23:16)
The slide in advance. It's like stuck. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: (23:20)
Yeah, I even tried giving it a go.
Speaker 2: (23:22)
You did like help me OB one. Yeah, help me. I buster,
Speaker 1: (23:28)
I saw I, speaking of O one, I saw so many you and McGregor gifts already, so you did. I have a huge crush on
Speaker 2: (23:35)
Him. Huge.
Speaker 1: (23:37)
Me too. Huge, huge crush.
Speaker 2: (23:41)
Um, so please
Speaker 1: (23:42)
Send them my way. We'll send them our way while we're, especially while we're waiting here.
Speaker 2: (23:47)
Let's see. So, um, you and
Speaker 1: (23:48)
His babe? He is,
Speaker 2: (23:50)
He is babe. So I can't advance the slide, Stacy, so maybe you can do that. But in the meantime, um, I see Lauren is telling me there's a question here, there. Um, so the question is, um, that some aren't compliant with accessibility practices, um, putting hashtags within Texas A no-no for screen readers, right? It's, it's true. Um, you know, so I'm a person with a partial disability. I talked to Trisha about this earlier today. Um, I am not able to type at all. I have epicondylitis and tendonitis through both arms and hands, and I spent three years consulting the National Disability Institute. So I'm really, um, sensitive to this. However, um, you know what, what this course is, is about writing, um, you know, how do I say this? People also ask a similar question, which is, what about languages, other languages? And I can't address that because I'm not fluent in Portuguese or German or Spanish.
Speaker 2: (24:49)
So I can't address those the same way. Like even though I am a person with this disability, like I, um, don't have full expertise right around that. So, um, this course is not gonna be generally ADA accessible. Um, I think the thing to think about is who's your target audience? If it is specifically people with disabilities, then you're gonna have to write a different way. However, if your, uh, audience is people who have relatives, who are people with disabilities, which a lot of non-profits are marketing to them because that's how they do their fundraising, then you can, you know, worry less or pay less attention, not pay less attention, but put less of, um, a focus on that in your communications. Right? That's the best answer I have cuz I'm only human. Um, alright, so let's see. We're still like not getting the slides to move forward, but I could share a screen and just pull up my own slides or Stacy, anybody, anybody?
Speaker 1: (25:59)
Um,
Speaker 2: (26:00)
I need help.
Speaker 1: (26:02)
Let's see. . All right. Okay, well, let's get Stacy in minute and maybe look over this and maybe we, okay. We can answer a couple questions right now, just, uh, midway point. Yeah. So the number one question we've got right now is how do you avoid copyright fatigue, especially when you're constantly promoting the same event or activities?
Speaker 2: (26:21)
Yeah, so the great way is to, um, , it's a, such a good question. Um, first of all, I believe in post mo and not promo, promo is exhausting and nobody really cares. Buts and seats are impossible to get and they're not very valuable. But if you can at any time flip it around and make post mo where your value goes, then it's much easier to get so many more things. The value of post mo means that the content you're promoting becomes evergreen by default. It's rare that it's, that's not, it's very, very rare these days. Um, and so if you think that in advance, then whatever it is you're promoting can be turned into a drip feed of, of post mo. So, for example, say you have a blog and, or, or this, let's, let's say this webinar, right? So after this webinar, I'm gonna ask Stacy and Trish for the file.
Speaker 2: (27:15)
I'm gonna upload this file into lately Lately's gonna transcribe it, it's gonna read all the quotes that Trish and I have said today. It's gonna break those quotes into social posts and it's gonna add little video clips of us saying those and give me 40 social posts right away. I'm gonna take those social posts and I'm going to schedule them one a week for the next, every other week, let's say, for the next 80 weeks. And the post mo of the long tail is gonna infinitely drive exponentially more traffic back to, uh, the full version than I would ever get in the, in the promo, right? So that's the first thing is like, anytime you can flip post mo and promo, then I would do that. The next thing that I would say is, um, , um, use this book, this is my favorite book. It's called, um, L is for Lolli Gag Quirky Words for a Clever Tongue.
Speaker 2: (28:15)
And, um, what it is is like, it's not at the sos, it's just a very strange dictionary. And the words are like Haber, dasher, crimini, um, conniption or privy pist. They're just all words that are really fun to say. Um, I read the book as a way to when I'm stuck as a way to jog my mind, like to get some inspiration, make me laugh, obviously. So I would have, if it's not this book, like have a book or a resource or even a person that you can go to to break that fatigue, you know, one of the best, I'm just gonna start talking about some of the other tricks here. Um, hey Lauren, um, if, if Lauren, if you can find a copy of my slides and just put them, um, in the chat to me it's the rules 2021, then maybe, if that's okay with Stacy and Trish, we can at least go to those. But in the meantime, I'm just gonna talk through a couple others if that's okay. Right? So my let's do that. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, my favorite trick by the way, is, um, reading out loud .
Speaker 2: (29:34)
So you guys have heard me do this before and the people are asking some questions. So I'm gonna just do what's on the screen here. You heard me read this out loud, but I'm gonna do it again. Preach words are the DNA of every sales pitch. The wrong words are costing companies 400 billion in the US alone. Don't let that be you. So what I'm doing is I'm, um, emphasizing what's there and I'm trying to feel how it comes out of my mouth, cuz I want you to hear it in your head. All right? And this is what happens. You all read text in your head and you hear how it sounds. You hear my voice in your head, or Trisha's voice or Lauren Flo or Sylvia's voice, or Michael's voice, okay? And you have to think about that as you're writing you in social media world, we don't have italics and bold, but in email world, of course you do.
Speaker 2: (30:26)
And those are great tools for you to, to use, right? So in this case, I'm using those words to create the emphasis. Make sure that exactly what I'm communicating gets heard and read, uh, through your, through your head. Right now, I have resting face in words in writing . So I have to use a lot of emojis, , and humor to help, um, curtail that, right? And then I have to walk this line between authority and humor, right? Cause I don't wanna undercut myself too much. So, mm-hmm , when you, I I won't inspire you all to start reading your words out loud and really think about, this is a good example that I love so much. Think about how they feel that's gonna be your instant cue. If it's, if it's something is wrong and something needs to be changed. Um, so in this case, this is, uh, I shop at West Elm.
Speaker 2: (31:17)
They have great pillows. I buy a lot of stuff from them. They sent me this piece of, um, mail in the snail mail, and it says, this certificate is issued for reward purposes and is a duplicate of the certificate you received by email. Now can you, you guys hear that this certificate is issued for reward purposes? It's a duplicate of the certificate. Now, I was a rock and world DJ and a professional reader for dozens of years. And I've practiced reading this before, but this is very hard to say. You guys can hear it coming outta my mouth. It's like there's, I'm chewing on marbles right now. Here's what they're really saying. Hey, there're silly nilly we emailed you a separate copy of this coupon. You can't use both. That's what they're telling me. See how hard that was for them to do and how easy it was for me for me to do. So that's the most important thing about your writing, is if you are, if the way you're sounding is, um, you know, Kurt mean inconclusive, confusing, all these things, a great way of detecting that before anything else is actually just reading the words out loud before you click send. All
Speaker 1: (32:27)
Right? Okay, Keith, I think we have, we're gonna, we're gonna try something here. Okay? Someone in the chat pointed out quite correctly that everyone has access to these slides. If you click docs at the the top, you can open today's slides. So maybe if Kate, if we can do it this way, we can open the slides. If everyone can open the slides separately and kind of click through them on their own, um, just until we get this thing back up, then we can keep talking about it. But you guys all have slides to, to look at. So up in the top where it goes, chat messages, poll docs, click docs and open today's slides. You'll see a pdf. And so Kate was just talking about, I got it, she did number, uh, seven. But like, let's just quickly go back to number five. If we can leverage why and because, and let's just, oh, okay. Still the old slide. Okay, let's just keep doing it like this until we get the slides up and running. So Kate, you're on leverage, you're on five 16, everybody leverage. Why? And because, and let's just run through this, right? So sorry everyone,
Speaker 1: (33:35)
But it does look like it's back. So, oh, awesome. That's what we're doing. .
Speaker 2: (33:39)
Oh my god. Okay. You guys are so great. So thanks everybody for hanging out with us. Okay,
Speaker 1: (33:42)
Thank you. Sorry so much everybody for keeping up with us. And, uh, so this, yeah, let's, let's go.
Speaker 2: (33:48)
Okay, cool. Sorry, sorry to talk over you. Um, alright, so this one is like super, uh, trick. Again, it's why and because, so you all know, um, the journalist questions, right? Who, what, why, where, how, when did I get them all? Yeah. Um, so all of those, because their questions obviously, um, inspire an answer. So, right, like all questions do why specifically must be followed by because right has to be. And so whenever you use why everyone is expecting the, because, so it's kind of a, um, fill in the blanker there and it's a great way to get a click , right? Leave the, because behind the click, okay, it triggers that, that understanding and that next step that is ingrained in all of us. It also triggers trust. Um, because resolves the que it resolves the why. It answers the question. The answer is the trust, right?
Speaker 2: (34:47)
You can also, by the way, use because at the start of a sentence, despite whatever your English professors told you, when you do that, it creates pause. Someone was asking about spacing earlier. Spacing can also come in the rhythm of the words. We're gonna touch on that a little bit later as well. Um, also why gets that bonus visual of the question mark. So that's again, what we talked about earlier is how things, you know, look on the page. I was a line cook, Trish, I don't know if you know this about me, all through high school and college. Cause you got two free meals a day if you're in the kitchen, . And I just had a high metabolism. I ate a lot of food. Um, what I learned is, first of all, everything Tony Bourdain wrote in that book is a hundred percent true.
Speaker 2: (35:34)
I lived it. Um, but also, you know, the, the, the visual of the plate, right? You guys have all seen Chopped. It's why it's something they judge them on how the words look are a part of it too. Like what does it look like on the page? And that's why I was talking about, um, I need a next slide please. Um, talking about the ways that, um, the emojis and the inline hashtags that aren't, aren't ADA accessible, but still recommended. Um, so here's an example. Why How's the weather is the simplest, most powerful question still plus other sales and marketing protips that'll make you go, hmm, with wa and Kacha Allison. So I've done a couple things. First of all, I started with why. So you're looking for the, because already plus then I said, how's the weather? So there's a question built in. I've got my quotation marks as a visual too.
Speaker 2: (36:29)
We talked about the weather at the beginning of this. So you guys know that's a theme for me, right? And I'm making this statement. It's the simplest, most powerful question still, right? Those all caps reasoning, Julian. That's why, cause it's making it emphasis, right? People often toss off that kind of the weather as like a, a boring, non-intellectual, you know, subject. But in fact it's the great leveler. Or how, where are you? Right? Where do you live? All these things they bring us together. It's an, it's an instant connector. Now you can see here too, remember I talked about the no call, call to action. There it is, right? So I'm pushing arrows visually towards that link. I'm using the plus sign. I've got my inline hashtags. Um, I re refer to myself as Mo a lot because, you know, Trish had said earlier to me today that she's a child of Disney. I'm a child of the Muppets. I love Miss Piggy . So somehow I fancied myself like her. Um, but hopefully that, that, um, touches on some more of those questions. So if I can get a next slide, please also, we'll just go, keep going. You guys are doing great. I can't see the chat anymore. It seems to be like frozen on my screen, but, you know, hope everybody's good. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: (37:45)
Lots of Muppet fans over here. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: (37:48)
Great.
Speaker 1: (37:48)
We have lots of Muppet fans in the house tonight.
Speaker 2: (37:51)
So Miss Piggy is not my favorite, by the way. I guess I'm, uh, you know, I'm, I'm curious. Let's, let's find out where, where your favorites are. Is it, is it animal? Is it Dr. Heath? Like I'm very curious. Mine, yeah. What is it?
Speaker 1: (38:04)
Oh, I'm, I'm a Kermit person. Kermit, I, I, I'm a, I love Kermit, but um, he's so sweet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: (38:12)
The rainbow connection. So here we go. Play to the ego. Um, so this one, again, like the psychology of writing is really important. It pays a big role here. Social media especially, um, thrives on ego. I mean, we all have, have Instagram accounts, I'm assuming, uh, thanks Kim Kardashian, . But in writing there's a trick that you can all use and um, you can use it not just in social, but in anywhere. But it's about really thinking about how other people, um, perceive the word I in text. So this can be hard to do in an email, for example, but try it, or in a blog, when you, when you use I, it instantly puts all the focus on you, right? But the conversation isn't about you, it's about who you're selling to, right? Everybody knows like this. The idea is, um, when, when you're selling, you ask people to talk about themselves cuz everybody loves to talk about themselves. Um, and they'll start selling the product for you, which is a great thing that, that happens when you stop talking and let the person you're selling to talk. It's hard for me. I talked for a living for 12 years. I love the sound of my voice.
Speaker 2: (39:25)
Fish can barely get a word in, right? So, um, but when you're writing, yeah, okay, so, so try to take out the i now it's gonna be, it can be weird cuz you can't have, um, like an a, you know, the grammar has to be there obviously. But there are a lot of times when you can either swap the eye with a, we sometimes a you, if you move it, remove it all together, or guess what that verb becomes first and you get yourself into that, um, call to action, command, authority position that we talked about earlier. Um, we as inclusive and you forces empathy, right? So these are the things that I like to play around with and we'll do an example here. Can I have the next slide please? Great. Um, alright, here we go. We constantly remind ourselves what it's like to be in their shoes.
Speaker 2: (40:23)
Sounds a, I can't read my own writing sounds Avi, but treating customers how you want to be treated can sometimes conflict with other goals. More on scaling the hard way and the right way with customer experience pH dan. So what I'm doing here is I'm making an assumption with that first sentence. We constantly remind ourselves who's the we I'm talking to. Now for me, I'm thinking, um, this is actually a women focused, um, social post for me, that's a lot of my audience, but it can be applicable to anybody. I I also really talk to underdogs a lot in general. So that's my we, but it's vague enough so that it could be, you know, anyway, so what it does is it makes you do what I'm saying, put yourself in someone's shoes. I'm kind of using like some weird form of like, on a mania I guess here, or not, not quite, but, um, Notia, what, what am I?
Speaker 2: (41:18)
It's, it's sort of like manifesting destiny. I'm telling you what to do as I'm doing it, right? Um, so that's the trick there. But then I have that question, what's it like to be in their shoes? I've got the all capital letters because I want you to think of that other person. And I'm trying to trigger this idea of sympathy. Um, sounds obvi like that's a casual word for me. Um, we find this all the time from our customers is the more casual language they use, the greater the engagement. Yes, you can do this if you are a banker or a very large company, I promise you there's always a way. Um, but that vernacular, um, the kind of colloquial speak just does wonders for you because what it does is it lends you the authority and the trust cuz you're a real person, right?
Speaker 2: (42:07)
That's the biggest thing. So I'm putting a couple pairs of shoes in there. You can see that little, little visual breakup. Then I'm talking about the golden rule. Treat customers how you want to be treated, okay? Now it can sometimes conflict with other goals. There's the mystery. Someone was asking about, you know, burring the lead and how do you tell a story without that? Well, this is how, right? You're just alluding enough to it. So why would you treat customer? What's the different way? Like what, what is the goals? That conflict, right? Um, sometimes it's making money. That's actually what I'm talking about. Um, which, which Dan and I talked about in, in the thing in, in our um, podcast here. The other thing that I've, I'm doing is giving you a little bit of a call to action, more on scaling the hard way and the right way.
Speaker 2: (42:54)
So there's more mystery. I'm trying to give you an understanding of what we're going be talking about, but I'm not gonna give you the whole kitchen sink here. And then I'm qualifying who Dan is by saying it's customer experience. So this particular, um, podcast touches on a lot of things, but that's the general subject and I'm doing that. So when you click it as opposed to saying check out, you have a good idea of what you're gonna get here. It's not, not the full reveal, but a teaser. Right? Okay. Um, next slide please. Great. Yes. Awesome. So we talked about this earlier, but I wanna, yeah, okay. Uh, I just wanted to go through this one and can we actually just go through the, um, the next slide and we can touch on it. Is that okay Trish? Mm.
Speaker 1: (43:42)
Yeah. I just wanna leave at least 10 minutes probably for questions. So,
Speaker 2: (43:45)
Um, okay, cool. Sorry. Try and try and trying, um, automat is what I had said before and here it is. Um, an example. So when I had to fire a client but didn't have the balls cause they owed me so much money, GA and other catalyst that sprung the lately s sprawling real talk with Mark Evans. Okay, so I forgot to add a close parent. So what? But you guys can see a lot happening here. Now I'm, I'm allowed to say I can, I can say little outlanders things, not everybody can. Um, but even the word balls, I put a Z there cause like this is my vernacular that we talked about before, but it's also, you can hear, you can hear it how it sounds. The an matia is ga, I stole that from Lauren Toro, my, my coo. Um, and then sprung the lately sra.
Speaker 2: (44:28)
There's a lot here. This is fun to say. It's fun to read, right? I'm looking for, I'm looking for the lean in. I'm looking for the reaction. That's the first step in order to get you to do what I, what I want you to do. All right, next slide, Trish. I'm going, I'm going for it. Lightning wrapper lightning eight. We're gonna do it all right, right With your eyeballs. We touched on this before, but let's get back to it. Someone asked about the all capitals, like, there's so many more things you can use. You've got this whole keyboard in front of you, right? Or your, or on your uh, your touch pads, right? So really think about how things look. Let's go to the next slide. And I will show you and just remind you of all the things we've talked about before. Even though AI gets the top bill at lately, the bedrock of what goes into it is all based on what I learned in Radio Plus as a marketing agency owner drowning in spreadsheets.
Speaker 2: (45:17)
That sounds crazy and it is, but also cool as hell. More with my pal, Scott. There's that rhythm we talked about before. So I've got a long sentence. The whole first one is a long sentence. Then they've got the staccato of the short. You can see how it is, right? It, it makes it entertaining, it keeps it moving, it keeps the momentum going. I'm also doing the inline hashtags, also inline at mentions the plus breaks it up nicely. You can see the drowning meant to really make you feel that with me. No, who, who else has been drowning in spreadsheets? Come on, kill me now. Spreadsheets. Go Trish, right? the wave. Giving you a little sense of humor. I'm gonna read this again. Even though AI gets the top bill lately, the bedrock of what we, what goes into it is all based on what I learned in Radio Plus as a marketing agency owner drowning in spreadsheets.
Speaker 2: (46:09)
That sounds crazy and it is, but also cool as hell. So the other thing that breaks that up is obviously their sentences are short, but I'm starting with, and remember I said you could start with, because I'm starting with, but these are the rules that you were told that you could never do. And I'm saying break them. In fact, you know, break all my rules. All rules are meant to be broken. Everything should be tested. Um, okay, let's keep going. Um, have compassion. Yes, this is so important. This is the golden rule. And it, and it may be the most important rule that we all forget. Um, the person who you're trying to communicate with, whether it's your engineer or your head of sales or your cousin or your mom or the guy at the coffee counter, or the girl at the library, woman at the library, um, is that they have a day in a life also, right?
Speaker 2: (47:04)
So it's not only just think about this before you honk your horn, at the next person driving by you like a jerk. Really just thinking about like, how do you get what you want, right? That's, that's the most important thing. What's the true objective? And are you, are you actually helping people get there with you? I'll show you how to do this in writing, um, with the next slide, please. Great. Um, sales peeps, mold scripts to your own voice, otherwise you sound fake and untrustworthy. Plus other tips I learned from a former life in a broadcast radio page all the way down. And then there, there's some, some hashtags there. I broke my own rules either at the end, um, and there's also four. You should never do more than three on LinkedIn. The algorithm dings. You did, you know that? Here you go.
Speaker 2: (47:51)
All right, so a couple things are happening here. Number one, sales peeps. So I'm calling out a group of people. I'm using peeps. That's my vernacular, okay? I'm, you can tell I'm a human, not a brand. Here's my statement. Mold. That's the verb. Mold scripts to your own voice. Like come on, this is the word I wanna call out your voice. Otherwise. And I could have used a comma there, but the hyphen and the spaces on each side. Break it up a little bit and give you more emphasis. Otherwise you sound fake. Now I'm not saying everybody can get away with using fake. I can, but I'm doing that for a reason. Fake isn't even a word. I made it up and untrustworthy cuz that's true. Now I've got my, my favorite emojis there. This one eyeballs and this one. And I'm using those to break it up.
Speaker 2: (48:36)
Then there's my under the breath plus other tips I learned from a former life and broadcast radio page all the way down. Okay? You can see how all I don't have AALS here. I have to use something else to convey the sound that's coming out of my mouth. I use my arrows again cause I love the idea of, uh, keeping, keeping the ball rolling. Who plays football around here? Soccer, right? So when somebody passes you the ball in soccer, you don't stop the ball and turn around, you move with the ball. You don't take the air outta the ball. You just keep going towards the net, right? So it's the same idea. There's a visual momentum that's happening that I want to take advantage of. Um, the next slide is a more functional way of doing this. And that's, um, thinking about the clear, clear objective, right?
Speaker 2: (49:24)
I touched on this a few times. So I want you guys to come down in social media to the simplest two things, which is clicks and shares, right? Like I said, you want people to do something, own that and then work backwards for what it is. So if you know that clicks and shares are the only two outcomes that you're gonna get on social, let's think about how those work. So here's a secret. Clicks are very hard for small businesses because we don't have enough trust yet. You know, people don't know us enough to get those clicks except with how to content. So anything that's like, you know how to look younger with gu massage, face massage, we were talking about that earlier today. , um, you know how to learn copywriting tricks that are gonna blow your mind and get 98% sales conversion. These are the kinds of things that are very clickable.
Speaker 2: (50:19)
And the reason is, is the answer comes at the end of the how to. How to is a question. Why? Because, right? You just leave the answer behind the the click. Now the other one though is, is share. And this one is, um, so interesting. Shares are about ego. It's all about making people look smart. So in college someone would come to you with a new record and you'd be like, oh my God, this is amazing band. Who are they? I'm old enough that we had records. And then you would share it with a friend and you got the credit of being the taste maker. And social works the same way. So if you share someone else's content, you look cool. You're the one who looks smart. Interesting, right? So if you write with that in mind, think about is what's the shareability here, right? So can we go to the next slide and we'll read out, read this one.
Speaker 2: (51:12)
We're almost done people. Just one more. All right? The secret, remember that barf of a book isn't a secret at all. It's a mindset. More real talk for entrepreneurs and underdogs with my rad pals Jim and Chris. All right, so sorry if I'm offending anybody who's read The Secret. I mean, I read the Secret and I'm glad I read it. It did change my life. But I feel like it is a barf of a book cuz it's terribly written. Um, but that's the secret. It's, it's a mindset that is the secret, right? So once you know that it's all you need, what I'm doing here is touching on something we talked about in this podcast. So I'm giving you a, a teaser of of what's to come. I started with the on amount of Ps I'm using my Ellis, my ss the secrets in quotes.
Speaker 2: (51:58)
There's my under the breath. Remember that barf of a book? I love barf again. What do I love? These things? I don't know, you know, sorry. Um, cuz it's fun to say, um, isn't a secret at all. There's my statement and there's my, it's we talk about the negative calls to action. This is a twist on that, right? Um, it's a mindset. Another statement and mindset is emphasized. Cause I want you to feel how important that is. Right? Then I'm saying this is my call to action, my non call call. More real talk. So you're gonna get, you know, the full monty with me. That's what you get. I'm tagging underdogs. Cuz I said before, I love the underdogs. I'm an underdog. And even with my rad pals, I'm cutting my character count with w that's my w rad. I'm not from California, but sometimes I feel like I'm a surfer.
Speaker 2: (52:46)
So I throw in words like that and um, pals like I'm not actually friends with Chris and Jim. I've never met them, but I love them. They're my customers. . Um, so I'm doing a lot here to make it feel casual, make it feel like a thing you would wanna listen to. Like be be approachable. I mean even, I don't know if you, I didn't think I gave you guys this. Oh, I did. I I have these head shots that I don't play guitar. You guys, , this is a fake guitar actually. It's just a piece of cardboard and it's me fake playing. Um, so, um, there's a lot I'm trying to do to like, make sure you understand what you're gonna get if you listen to this podcast and that it's gonna be something interesting and different, right? Last rule and then I gotta take questions.
Speaker 2: (53:30)
Okay? You guys are the best. This is the most important one. Dog food, everything you do. Okay? So the metaphor comes from Purina. They couldn't sell their dog food. It wasn't doing very well. And then they decided let's put a dog from someone of the company on, on tv eating the dog food and show people that dogs actually like it, right? So drink your own champagne is the same idea. I like dog food cuz like you guys can tell I like these more, um, rustic terms in general. So, um, your employees is where it starts. Like you we're all about. And communications is tapping into the networks that are often bigger than ours, especially when we're smaller businesses, right? Cuz you need, you need help from other people. You rely on that help. It's the village, okay? Your employees are the first village. So first of all, make sure they love working there. Second of all, employ them to help you share the messages. If you don't do that, you've got much bigger problems, right? Um, is there a slide after this? I don't know if there is. Um, but this means like everybody should be following, uh, you guys on social. Everybody we should sign up to read your newsletters, you wanna be putting yourself in the shoes of the customers constantly. You'll catch mistakes and you'll improve.
Speaker 2: (54:43)
Ta
Speaker 1: (54:44)
Ta. Okay. Amazing. Okay, so, uh, yes, as you guys notice the Q in it. Good job, Kate. Applause Kate, everybody that was, oh,
Speaker 2: (54:55)
Sorry.
Speaker 1: (54:56)
So good.
Speaker 2: (54:57)
. I feel bad about that stuff. The slides got stuck, but hopefully everybody hung in there. Okay.
Speaker 1: (55:02)
It happens, you know, it's a good way to lighten up the day, right?
Speaker 2: (55:06)
Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: (55:07)
I'm, I'm light. I'm light. Yeah, I'm feeling good. Everyone's feeling good? I'm seeing, yes. Thank you everyone. Okay, so we're gonna get to the Q and as now. Um, we did, uh, add an additional 10 minutes, so if you guys can stick around, uh, we have more talking time. Uh, as you guys did note, the q and a has been disabled, so if you guys wanna send me a message, uh, with your questions, I will add those as well and we can talk about them too. So, did we, we
Speaker 2: (55:35)
Tease today about breaking the internet and we did it. Is that,
Speaker 1: (55:48)
Sorry, it's
Speaker 2: (55:49)
Gold. I got, so I see a question here that I, I'm gonna address. One is that, okay, so Megan had a great one about, um, balancing the casual, the establishment. Really super important question. Um, and the answer is yes, you can, you can mix them up and there's always, you know, obviously with individuals you can be more casual. Um, I would say, you know, Hootsuite, obviously you guys just launched your new brand, which has a very casual tone to it. It, and because of your industry, that can be done. You know, I worked with the irs, believe it or not, , and, and trying to get them to be casual was like almost impossible. But, um, you have to just test it, right? So what I would do is write the social post, for example, that you wanna write the way you wanna write it, vomit first, and then edit, and then look at it and think, okay, well what, what little things here? What things do I have to change, first of all? And then what things could I either test or maybe leave? It is, or maybe there's another, get your out another way to say this word that will be, you know, less stiff, for example, and still get across that, that tone. Um, emoji's, I think are your best friend also.
Speaker 1: (56:58)
Yeah, and if I can just add on that too, from who tweets perspective, uh, there's, it, it, there's a spectrum when it comes to writing casually versus professionally. I mean, we walk that line quite a lot. Um, you know, the way you talk to people who are having customer service problems versus people who are you just having a fun interaction with, that's gonna be a completely different tone. So you kind of have to look at it as your own business. What are you doing? What market are you in? And see kind of where those limitations are. Like where can you have fun and where do you have to be more serious? Like, I've worked in a variety of different industries, so I know that firsthand that there is, uh, there is some guidelines you have to follow. Um, but you can still have fun. You might just need to figure out where those boundaries are to do it.
Speaker 2: (57:46)
Um, awesome. Um, I see another question too. Can I, can I just tackle this one? That, right? Yeah. Um, so Diana asked if hashtags are still working, and I thought that was a great question. Um, so the old way, no. Right? So the, the, the original way of hashtags index being used as indexers, right? I mean, just think of the last time you searched for a hashtag anywhere. It usually only happens when there's live news, like there's an earthquake or you know, some kind of like, um, an election, something like that. But generally speaking, people aren't searching by hashtags. So if you're, and this goes to the ADA comment a little bit as well, is like if you're stringing them at the end, what ends up happening now is it seems lazy. And, um, I'm not saying it is lazy, but it can be perceived as lazy and it also can be perceived as spammy, right?
Speaker 2: (58:41)
Because you've just got this vomit of stuff at the end. Um, what we've found in our platform is that the AI started pulling out hashtags as, um, high engagers for our customers that were instead designed to augment a message in really in one or two words, smush together in a hashtag. And when that happened, the engagement skyrocketed because usually there's some kind of personable, um, flavor to it. And you saw that with the hashtags I was using. So for example, my personal highest performing hashtag is hashtag peeing my pants because that's what I said when Gary Vaynerchuck tweeted about my company
Speaker 1: (59:25)
.
Speaker 2: (59:26)
Um,
Speaker 1: (59:26)
Okay, Keith, I got some questions here in the messages that I'd really love to
Speaker 2: (59:30)
Oh yeah, go for it. Go
Speaker 1: (59:32)
For it. Okay. First of all, I listing this in the chat, people did want you just to clarify quickly what, um, promo or promo and post the other one post smoke, can you just quickly explain what those ones were?
Speaker 2: (59:44)
Yeah, thank you. Um, sorry guys. It's so promo short for promotion as in before pro, and then post mo is post motion as in after meaning you would promote an event before it happens and you would post promote an event, uh, after it happens. Is that awesome?
Speaker 1: (01:00:06)
Make sense? Okay. Yeah. Yes, I'm with you on that. Okay. I've got a great question from Kimberly here. Um, hi Trish. I'm in my fifties and write for teens. I write like a mom. I've tried to embrace that because I can't write like a teen thoughts. How do I keep my casual voice from being cringy
Speaker 2: (01:00:24)
? That's the best. Um, hi mom. You're awesome. I would first of all lean into the mom ness because I bet your audience will really, really like it. And I bet the audience that isn't a mom is also gonna like it because it's gonna be so, um, just authentic to you. So that's my one recommendation.
Speaker 1: (01:00:49)
Also, don't try too hard. That's,
Speaker 2: (01:00:52)
Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: (01:00:52)
That's, I honestly think is key too. If you try to sound like you're a teen or you're a Gen Z, it's gonna be like that Steve Buscemi gift, you know, like fellow, fellow teens. It's like, it's just people are going to be able to tell, like as much as our generation, our Gen Z, young millennials, millennials, whatever, have lingo, we also still talk like human beings. Um, so don't get too hung up on the, the, you know, the cool Gen Z terms and stuff because, you know, they still read like normal human beings. So,
Speaker 2: (01:01:25)
Yeah. Um, at first, second, I thought you were including me in your generation. I was really
Speaker 1: (01:01:31)
Speaker 2: (01:01:31)
Excited.
Speaker 1: (01:01:33)
Everyone's welcome. At the end of the day, we're all human beings. .
Speaker 2: (01:01:36)
The one thing too I would add to that, Trish, is that, um, you know, I, when I'm using words that are, are not of my ilk, I point out that I know that. Um, so, you know, for example, my CTO uses the term Gucci a lot, and he's younger than me, quite younger than me. And I was like, I was trying to, I was like, oh, I'm gonna steal that. And he's like, well, it's actually like a nineties term . Yeah. Like, I'm already too late to it, you know? And I was like, then I'm gonna use it even more because like, then people will actually know that I'm using it in, in irony,
Speaker 1: (01:02:10)
You know? Mm-hmm. . Cool. Um, Kate, can you also just quickly define the difference between copywriting and content marketing?
Speaker 2: (01:02:20)
Yeah, so it's, it's my belief that copywriting, I'm just gonna speak vaguely. I mean, don't hold me to up to the o e D or, or, um, you know, Miriam Webster here, but, but copywriting is any kind of writing, that's how I think of it. Like, again, whether it's a text to your husband or a Slack message to your head of sales or an email to the customer service person who you want a refund from, that's, it's all copy to me. Um, content marketing of course can be any kind of content. Text, video, audio or imaging or those, the four kinds I think they are these days. Um, you know, and they can be broken down. Of course, this is Kim's question, I think, right? Um, long and short, et cetera. The rules that we talked about today, like, I, I just really believe in getting things done faster and getting it done better. And I'm constantly learning and correcting myself and breaking my own rules even, and learning from you guys. Um, and if you apply these rules to how you communicate generally, I mean, that's, I just wanna make this, this, this string shorter, Trish, right? Between us, like,
Speaker 1: (01:03:32)
Yeah. Um, okay, uh, let's move on. Uh, what are better variations of follow tag and use this hashtag for social advertising or promotion? This comes from Jessica,
Speaker 2: (01:03:48)
Can you read that again? Better variations of follow
Speaker 1: (01:03:52)
Of follow tag and use this hashtag. So I guess when you're, you're asking someone to interact with that.
Speaker 2: (01:03:59)
Um, so the fall, I'm, I'm thrown by the first part, meaning like, so it's
Speaker 1: (01:04:08)
Basically, I'm assuming it means like, follow me, I'm assuming that's what it is, or like, follow this person, or,
Speaker 2: (01:04:14)
Oh, as opposed to just like tagging them outta the blue to try to get them their attention. Is that the, I'm thinking of the wrong thing
Speaker 1: (01:04:21)
To me. Okay. Well, okay. This is a very interesting question that to me, this kind of sounds like, you know, when you're doing promotions or advertising and you want people to either follow you or to engage with certain accounts or to use a particular hashtag, uh, do you have any advice on how to ask people to do that without, you know, basically saying, use this hashtag follow this hashtag?
Speaker 2: (01:04:45)
Yeah, it's hard. I believe that the hard way is the way, this is not the answer you want. Um, I do ask and I ask individually. So asking publicly generally is fine. Um, but unless you get a lot of social proof and a lot of comments, then the cascade doesn't happen. Other people don't follow on. But people have a hard time saying no to you if you just ask them directly. So in a dm, for example, um, and that's what we do. And nobody wants to do this. I mean, it's just amazing to me, even I've hired many sales people and given them endless emails to use and, and I've said to them, don't mass email, reach out individually, and no one ever does. But when I sit down and do it , I get all the response. You know, cuz it's, people just wanna be talked to like a human. So, um, I think the larger question it sounds like to me though is like, how do you grow your audience? Is that, is that fair, Trish?
Speaker 1: (01:05:44)
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (01:05:46)
Yeah. So again, hard way is the way social proof is everything. I mean, we talked about the clicks in the, in the shares today. The shares have double effect, right? They, they get the aware, the brand awareness that you want, and they, um, eventually will turn into clicks. It's a long tail. I mean, but all marketing is a long tail. This is the, the sad truth. I hate to tell all of you this. Marketing is hard. It takes a long time. It's never quick. And it, when you change your mindset around that, or when you change your boss's mindset around that ,
Speaker 2: (01:06:28)
Everything will become a little bit easier because there is that mystery. As you all know, there are unexplained things. You can't always track where everyone comes from because you could be on this class today and then in two years someone might bring up lately to you and you're like, oh yeah, I met, I met her on this course with Hootsuite, right? Like, you don't know how it's gonna come. Mm-hmm. . Um, I think one of the things we do is we, we ask people with big networks for help a lot. So I'll go to someone who has a newsletter with 10,000 followers and say, how can we partner together? Can you feature me on your newsletter and I'll do this for you? That kind of thing.
Speaker 1: (01:07:06)
Yeah. Um, okay. Uh, this question's coming from Alexis. Can you please ask Kate what advice she has for a copywriter writing for an established company? How to make content more engaging for a product that's a little more traditional slash professional. Mine, for example, is a tech company.
Speaker 2: (01:07:24)
Cool. Hi Alexis. How's it going? Thanks for coming today. Um, thanks all of you, by the way. So great question. I think the first thing I, you, I'm sure you've already done this, Alexis, but like get, get all your key messaging in order, right? So the elevator pitch, the keywords, you know, whatever those key phrases, stuff like that in case anybody doesn't know this stuff. It's just basic. Like, um, you know, if you're gonna use a term, we were talking about this today, um, using, instead of using going, going to go and NA works for us Ghana, I want my social media managers to use those kinds of casual colloquialism. So I, we make a le we have a running list of the software has it actually, but, but, you know, establish that kind of stuff. Um, I think, you know, the best thing to show people is proof, right? So when you, you can find a company that's like yours and an example of something they've done that's gotten them a lot of engagement or success, and then you can take it to your boss or whoever and say, look, if we do this, this is what's gonna happen. That's always super good. Um, the experiments I think are important to Trish, right? You wanna set up, set up those tests. Like nothing is better than tests, right?
Speaker 1: (01:08:34)
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2: (01:08:36)
You gotta, you gotta do it. And bosses, you have to give your man, your marketing managers the ability to have tests like that risk has to be in play, you know? Mm-hmm. , you have to that leeway. One thing you can do is test it on your own personal account, like on LinkedIn and see how people respond there. I would do that. Yeah. You know, then it's no harm, no foul, right? Absolutely. Um,
Speaker 1: (01:09:00)
And also like you said before, like if you see someone in the same space that you're in doing something that you want to be doing, do it. Steal it. Like yeah, steal it. Um, okay, so we only have 50 seconds left, so we do have to wrap up here, but, uh, to the people whose messages I didn't get to answer we're so sorry, but, uh, you can definitely reach out to Kate or I on social. Kate like is a queen of social, she's on, she's, and same with the rest of the lately team. So please, please interact with them on LinkedIn or Twitter and if you have any more questions, especially I see some people asking why should I use lately? Uh, what's like, what's the benefits of lately? Tell me more about lately. I highly suggest you go check it out. But I do wanna say thank you so much for joining us today. This was a bit of a roller coaster. Um, definitely a bit of a more chaotic webinar that I've ever been on, but I love it anyway. Um, and uh, Kate, thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: (01:09:57)
I love you guys. Thank you so much. Uh, hi everybody. Talk to you out there. Okay.
