Speaker 1: (00:02)
It's my turn hi, I'm Kate. I'm the CEO of lately and the co-founder and the worst advice I ever got was don't swear in front of investors
Speaker 2: (00:14)
Who the told you that Kate don't swear in front of investors who said that? Why did they say that?
Speaker 1: (00:21)
It's actually someone I love and they, they were, they were say they were trying to help me. They were, and, and it's because the times are what they are still amazingly. And they were trying to protect me and help me. But what I found was, um, the more I am, who I am, the more I attract the people that lift me up. Right?
Speaker 2: (00:45)
Yeah.
Speaker 1: (00:46)
It's so cliche. Like, I mean, so the, the con the converse of that advice is be yourself. Right. Which I find that's hard to listen to because it feels like a duh, right? Duh, of course I'm myself. But when you sit down and really examine that so often, so many of us are not, and I'll give you another example. Right? So I talk about using weak words and, and how women especially seem to undercut our own authority with language. Uh, so for example, we'll say, oh, I just wanted to say hi, right? um, or I think X, Y, Z, where it should be, I know X, Y, Z. And when we don't even realize this, it's just a construct that we've been, you know, taught all the time, always apologizing. Right? And when you stop doing that, so many things happen, you become the authority, you become credible, you empower yourself, then you empower others, right. When you're, when you are yourself, you know, this film more than anybody, when you are yourself, you give other people permission to be themselves to say. Right. Then everyone's happy. .
Speaker 2: (01:57)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, I think that's interesting. I would argue though, there's one more reason why we don't believe that advice. And that's because we don't believe we're good enough. We don't believe that we're enough just as we are. So we have to show up as we expect them to see us. Right. And I actually, I talk about the, kinda the, the parade principle. I think it's parade. I can't remember. No, no. Pascal's principle his wager right. About God. But I use it in, in who we are mm-hmm so we can either pretend to be who we're not. And they hate us. In which case it's like, I'll never know if you would to love me. We can pretend to be who we are. And they love us. In which case they love a fictitious person. We have to live a lie, the rest of our lives.
Speaker 2: (02:34)
We can be who we are. And they don't like us. In which case they weren't our people. Anyway. And then my favorite, and this is why we're here is you be who you are. And I love you. And it's good. And that's your people. Right. And that's the thing. But often I guilty of this. Right. I have said this, my self, right? Like, oh, well, if only I were screw that, right. Like just own your own. Yeah. Just own it. Right. And I think that's, that is the power. Right? Cause when we take it back, we take it back. There's most people don't even care. Right. Most people don't even think about us, but those who do are gonna love us more and we're gonna give them that permission to be themselves. I think that's really a good,
Speaker 1: (03:21)
Yeah. I have a sticky note here. One of my, um, advisors and friends, Joanne Wilson, one of my investors actually, she's kind of a fit, big deal, Google her people. Um, so Joanne said to me, stop caring, which is very simple advice and very good. And that's what happens is because, you know, you know, somebody can sneeze and it could ruin my day. Right. If it's the, if it's the right person and that happens all the time, you know, yet somebody can say something wonderful to me and I don't let it lift my day. You know what I'm saying? Like, mm-hmm, why is that Phil? Like, so, so the, I put, so we all do this. We put so much more weight on the negative than we do in the positive, which is ridiculous. Right. Um, it's that edit, you know, the, the constant scrutiny, um, we like to joke, or I, I like to joke, um, that I have, um, a gift of seeing the glass glass half empty constantly. Right. And so that's a good skill as a CEO because it means you're always looking to find the problems and fix them. You know? It makes it difficult for my husband.
Speaker 2: (04:31)
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 1: (04:32)
Good guy.
Speaker 2: (04:34)
Yeah. Yeah. Right. But we, we do that though, because from early on, our report cards have been, oh my gosh, you got 17 A's and a B what is wrong? Holy, you got 17. A's holy smokes. Right. My daughter, my daughter sees that she's 15. And I'll tell you, I do my absolute best. My wife and I do her absolute best to remind her, Hey kid, you got such amazing grades. That other one. That's probably not your gift. Yeah. Let's stay here in the lane, but I'll tell you though, the world is set up to, you know, oh my, oh my gosh, you got, you got a warrant right here. and, uh, that's what I'm gonna look at instead of, Hey, the rest of you looks pretty good. So guy, yeah. I'm so guilty that
Speaker 1: (05:20)
It's crazy, you know,
Speaker 2: (05:22)
Like yeah.
Speaker 1: (05:24)
But all we can do is I think Brian Kramer was talking about this on social. Like a few years ago, we were in Facebook land where it's a little more, um, you know, relaxed. And I think he was asking about like, um, perfection, you know, what, what does it mean to attain perfection does one want to attain perfection? And I had said like, I feel like to be human is to aspire to perfection right now. Obviously perfection is a construct of the mind of culture, of, you know, whatever it is. And it's a little bit ridiculous, but it's the aspiration that matters, like be 1% better is another way people say it. Right. And so it's a weird dichotomy because you know, that scrutiny we're talking about it has to happen because that's our nature. That's how we, that's how we evolve as humans. We're competitive.
Speaker 1: (06:13)
Right. That's Darwin, you know? Um, so we're always looking to, to win, to eat, to, to, to dominate, right? These are, this is just part of what, how it is. Um, but at the same time, you know, you're, you're, it's the balance, which is, um, it's so funny. I was just saying this too. I'm ZZA zigzagging all over the place, but someone was talking about work life balance recently. And you know, that's, that's turned into such an ism at this point where like, it's a little to me, right? Like, you know, if, if you don't love your work or if you do love your work, then you're never thinking about a balance. Right. It's just always part of it. And so if you're, if you're in this place where you're running around saying, I hate my life. Um, when is the clock ending? When is my day ending the balance isn't there cuz your heart isn't there. And um, anyways, so bring me back, Phil, bring me back to reality zagging all over. But
Speaker 2: (07:11)
No, no. I think those are good points though. Right? I mean the fact there, there's a difference between wanting to be better. Yeah. And hating who we are. Right. I think that's really important. Right. And, and, and listening to the, to the jackasses out there that are gonna try to bring us down. Right. So I, well, cause yeah, yeah. Screw them. Right. So there is a balance though, right? So on the one end there's and jackasses who wanna tear us down on the other hand, there's Pollyanna, everything is flowers and sausages.
Speaker 1: (07:39)
Pollyanna. Yeah. And,
Speaker 2: (07:41)
And in the middle, right in the middle of that is the real world right. In the middle of that is the real world and the real world. And I, and I'm with you. Right. Like I, I certainly, I love what I get to do for work for sure. But I will tell you though, the key for me anyway to happiness is to be present where I am. So like right now, this is the most important thing to me right now. It's just me and you, we have 30 to 50 minutes together and we will invest this time and make our world maybe some others too. Right. If you're listening and watching, I love you. All right. But I'm really concerned about you, Kate. You're my focus here. And the rest of the world be damned, this is it right?
Speaker 1: (08:20)
This is it. You know, two things there, by the way, I love that you chose sausages, flowers and sausages of all things like it could have been bacon. It could have been lollipops. It could have been ice cream, but sausages are. They're wonderful. so good for you. Um, I'm gonna use that hashtag somewhere.
Speaker 2: (08:38)
It's my grandma. So my, my, one of my grandmothers said that I don't remember which one could be probably my old Polish grandma who would say that Philip, it is not always flowers and sausages. so gram, GRA shack and peace.
Speaker 1: (08:51)
That's perfect. My husband is Lithuanian. And um, so I will use this on. He'll love it. Um, and then the other thing you were just saying, as you were talking about it, I thought, you know, so in these moments, it's so hard not to look at yourself, right? We're narcissists and the screen here, we're, we're on stream yard, right. It's split. And I've been so guilty of doing this, looking at myself as we're talking and it's because you wanna know, you know, you wanna do some editing. Like how do I look? Do I look like a, you know, homeless, zany person? I don't know. Right. Which may I hope I didn't offend anybody there. Not today. not today. Uh, good. Thank God. Um, but I've, I've been trying to consciously look, look at you or whoever I'm talking to, and it is hard. It's distracting this other, the other thing that, and once in a while you get on, I think it's Microsoft teams where like, there's no picture of you and you're like.
Speaker 2: (09:44)
Yeah, totally. I'm looking for me. I'm lost I'm yeah, totally. Right. Let me in. Yeah, totally. Right.
Speaker 1: (09:51)
It's so bizarre. I wonder what the, I, I hope someone will do if they haven't already a psychological analysis of the impact of, of zoom and other things, um, you know, on, on all of us, um, you know, it's, it's so for, for me too, right? Like, so in case people don't know in my, in my previous life, I'm a, uh, I wa I was a rock and roll DJ. So my, my last gig was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM satellite radio. And so talking to a black box of, no one is something I'm good at. Right. And so when the world changed, this was not a new construct to, to me. Um, and understanding how to, and I, and I know you have this gift, but reading a room full of no one, which is everyone is hard to do. Right. And the, the skill, the gift is to make the listener, the viewer, the, the reader, if, if you're writing, um, feel as though they're part of the conversation, even though they don't have the mic. Right. Yeah. And it's so bizarre to me, like that shift that I had to make. I mean, I remember after radio being in a position where I was suddenly on stage doing public speaking and having the worst panic attacks couldn't sleep the night before, just all kinds of anxiety. And I remember telling my aunt, I'm never doing this again.
Speaker 2: (11:21)
That didn't last. Huh?
Speaker 1: (11:22)
Not last, you know, and what was it like? And, and I, and I remember like this one, can I tell you a story? This is, I think this is funny. Yeah. So I was in salt lake city at an event and I'm the keynote speaker. And, um, you know, you learn what you need on stage to, to make it good for yourself. Right. Whether it's a glass of water or a place to put that glass of water, which is important.
Speaker 2: (11:46)
Right. You have to ask for both, you have to ask for both,
Speaker 1: (11:49)
You do. Yes. It's so important. Right. Um, and then when you are on a stage, God help you. If the screens are behind you and you can't see them, you can't see your own slides. It's horrible. Right. So here I am, they are behind me. I don't know any of these things. I'm, I'm really just learning this, having been in a black box for my whole life, you know, and not having to worry about what, how anybody sees this. All I had to do was control my, my, the tone of my voice. And so the there's a podium and the microphone isn't working on the podium. And so they come out and set up, um, another microphone for me. And it's the kind where it's, you know, it's got the things and all the things, right. And so this guy's here and it's on a stand or whatever.
Speaker 1: (12:31)
And also, so I start, and I'm the kind of person that uses my slides as like a da dun to, to punctuate my joke or my conversation. So I'm like minute into this and the slides aren't going, but I don't know this until someone in the audience tells me. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, like, this is awful. Right. And so now the engineer is coming out and I have to filler Buster. So I'm like, how's it going? Salt lake city, you know, my brother lives here. Like, I'm just winging it, you know, trying to whatever. And, oh, and I'm in a, I'm also not myself. I'm in heels and a suit, which I don't what, yeah. I don't own, I own heels for date night, but like, I don't own a suit anymore, actually. Yeah. And so I'm like totally really uncomfortable. And so now, um, the microphone thing is actually dropping as I'm talking thing it's sinking down and I'm like sinking down with it like this.
Speaker 1: (13:30)
Hi, trying to keep mm-hmm . And so at some point, and we can't, I can't figure it out and I just gotta go. And so I kick my heels off actually, so that I can be like, the same size is the thing. Anyway. So I go through my speech and whatever, and at the end, the host comes up to shake my hand and say, you know, thank you so much, whatever. And, um, then we have to exit the stage, but my shoes are off. And so I duck behind the podium to put them on and just imagine how weird this looks like everyone is looking at the, my host. I suddenly have duck behind the podium.
Speaker 2: (14:04)
there's Kate
Speaker 1: (14:07)
Who put my shoes on. Yeah. It was so embarrassing felt like, and it was just this, I blushed to the, this moment thinking about it right now. Now this me would just celebrate that whole thing in that moment. You know? I know. Um, I, I understand too, when you embrace the up, um, the room, the room rolls with you, then you control the room, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: (14:35)
Yeah. For sure. And that's life,
Speaker 1: (14:36)
That's the life metaphor by, by the way, right there.
Speaker 2: (14:40)
Well, it's work. It's life, it's sales. It's being a DJ, right? I mean, you can't control this stuff. Sometimes things happen. You know, I've been on shows where my guest has had to run the show because I lost internet that I lost the second internet that my browser crashed. My Mac decided to update. I was on no, like no lie. I, one of my dear friends, Bruce que actually interviewed himself. He's I'm if you're I, that was really, you know, that's
Speaker 1: (15:11)
So great. , that's
Speaker 2: (15:13)
Terrible. Yeah. So, so I, you know, and I, I will tell you, I probably should watch it. Right. Cuz it probably is really good cuz Bruce is brilliant. But I think about that and I had two choices. I could either roll with it like I did and kind of make it fun or I could be like, oh my God, I am such an, I'm such an idiot. Right. I mean, that's, that's the self talk that we have in our brain.
Speaker 1: (15:34)
Yeah.
Speaker 2: (15:35)
Yeah. And that's the, you know, that's, that's a fight though. That's a fight.
Speaker 1: (15:39)
It is like, that was other, one of my, one of my favorite radio mentors. Steve Zend actually gave me this advice and, and he said, um, when you make mistakes on the air, people turn it up. Mistakes are powerful. Silence is powerful. Right. And once I understood that I used to make mistakes on purpose. interesting. Mm-hmm yeah. And there's a lot of reasons because, well, number one, so my, my radio voice fill is a little bit smoother.
Speaker 2: (16:09)
Oh your radio Delilah. I knew I heard you before.
Speaker 1: (16:12)
Speaker 2: (16:13)
No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: (16:15)
I wish. Right, right. and so I learned that in order to, um, attract more of a female audience, to be honest with you, um, I needed to cut, cut it up. I needed to like slightly break the sex, the sexy. So by being goofy, um, sometimes by actually just cracking my voice, like the way that a high school or a teenage boy cracks when he is , you know, developing his vocal chords, those kinds of things. Um, even like we talked about undercuting myself on purpose earlier, you know, for, for I'm a little bit older, but I used to watch, um, America's next top model. Don't shame me. And, um, Tyra banks always says like, you know, to the models, like when you're modeling for a man's magazine ti out and when you're modeling for a women's magazine, you, you hunch. Right. That's part of the, huh. The thing. Right. And so the voice is the same idea, you know, what men respond to versus versus women. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: (17:19)
That's so interesting
Speaker 1: (17:20)
To
Speaker 2: (17:21)
Ben. So interesting. Yeah. So so yeah. Wow. I did. So I will tell you, like, I, I have no formal training in any of this stuff. So for me, like I don't know any of that stuff, so I'm glad I, I don't usually put my DITs out when I'm on the show. So I appreciate that advice. So I'll work on that for the next show. um, it'll take some practice Kate year for it. We'll let you know we'll score score.
Speaker 1: (17:44)
Speaker 2: (17:45)
Right. So yeah. So that's so interesting. Now this is maybe
Speaker 1: (17:49)
Fans in the house,
Speaker 2: (17:52)
Right? Yeah. Yeah. We know. So, so talk to me about that. So, so you're a DJ 20 million, 2 2200 mil. How many, how big did you show
Speaker 1: (18:00)
20 million listeners was what we, they said we had at the time, um, cuz the radios, right? So the radios were in cars and yeah, an average of, I think two listeners per radio. Um, and this was year XM was in like year three or four when I got there. So they were still startup. Um, yeah, it was very new. Like Howard stern was not there yet or Oprah. It was just us, real people, you know? And it was a really time. I remember like within my first week, literally Tony Bennett was walking the floor and we were like, holy.
Speaker 2: (18:33)
Wow.
Speaker 1: (18:34)
Yeah. And it was a zoo like, so this tells you a lot. And so we were in the national geographic press printing, building the former one in, in, in Washington, DC. And it was on New York avenue, um, at which now there's a Metro there, but before it was just being built and it was very, very dangerous. Like you, you would, um, get to work early to park inside the gate. And if you did not, you would get someone to come out and escort you in. Cuz that's how dangerous it was. But we had a tax break for being in a historic building. Sure. You know, excuse me. And um, they had, when I was there, the DJs were on the top floor. So there was this crazy floor where it was op it was open. Now this was new having op open area. This, you know, this is 2000. Yeah. Uh, four, yeah. Three or four. Um, and it was like, everywhere stuff, hanging all over the place. All kinds of, I, I can't even tell you, like there was, um, one guy Bruce Kelly had like a, remember that picture in the eighties where some famous model was nude and there was a big, giant Cobra wrapped around her body to cover. Yeah,
Speaker 2: (19:41)
Sure.
Speaker 1: (19:41)
So he had the same picture of himself, um, like , which is hilarious. And his body was not
Speaker 2: (19:48)
Auto body. He was George Castanza. I got it. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: (19:51)
Yes. And so this was like the vibe, like it was just this mad, this mad house and in every format, like all the music bleeding all over and everybody yelling and it was just this crazy, crazy time people were outside smoking pot, like beer, always drinking beers. Like it was just wild working all hours. And then, um, at, in like year three, like right before I right around when I left, they had moved us down to the basement.
Speaker 2: (20:17)
Okay. Well you're moving on down to the lower east side, I guess. Huh?
Speaker 1: (20:22)
Yeah. They like took, they cut, they started cutting playlists. They brought in consultants and then they were bringing in like the Oprahs and, and the Jeters and like all these famous people that have stations because that's, you know, it got commercial. It got yeah. UN unfunded, right?
Speaker 2: (20:37)
Yeah. So I remember was it six or seven? Uh, my friend, uh what's. Oh, Karen Sellon had a show, but the be happy show that I got to be on. Yeah. Oh nice. Yeah. Back in the day. So yeah, so that was, that was fun. And it was call in like on the telephone. Those were early podcasts too. Right. we'd call in and hope that that hope that you didn't get a repeating line. You'd have to call back cause it'd be like, hello? Hello. Hello. Hello.
Speaker 1: (21:03)
Right.
Speaker 2: (21:04)
Yeah. Those are the bad, yeah. The bad old days. So that's the days,
Speaker 1: (21:08)
You know, I was listening to, um, there's a, I was listening to the Jayhawks the other day and um, which is a band and um, there's a song, there's a line that I love, which is you left some lipstick on the telephone. That's one of their, their lyrics and which says so much. Right. And I thought about the word telephone and how it's not gonna be in lyrics anymore. Cuz it doesn't exist. And similar with a song radio. Like I love, you know, um, radio is in a lot of lyrics from RM to, to
Speaker 2: (21:39)
Yeah.
Speaker 1: (21:40)
You know who Elvis Costello. Right. And those are some of the great, great. And it's a great word to say radio, cuz there's so much that rhymes with it and that'll be gotten soon too, which is, I guess I'm old now that I am missing these things. Is, is that what that means? Phil
Speaker 2: (21:55)
You're you're seasoned Kate season season
Speaker 1: (21:59)
The
Speaker 2: (22:01)
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna age myself. Right. Okay. So do you remember the song by Charlie Dory? Uh, pilot of the airwaves? Yeah. Yeah. In the seventies. Yes. Right. So I think about that and sometimes that pops on and I'm like, I bet my kids will never know what that means. Yeah. Yeah. You know like Howard hesman died like a month ago. Right? Dr. Johnny fever, my favorite DJ of all time. Like no. Right. Yeah. And it was gone and it's just so sad that that piece of the world is so different, but maybe it comes back. Right. Like vinyl's back.
Speaker 1: (22:37)
Yeah.
Speaker 2: (22:38)
Like I don't like for, for a niche, not for everybody, but for a niche. It is
Speaker 1: (22:41)
For, it is like, so what you're I think what you're touching on too is it's the theater of the mind is the thing that we fell in love with about radio, which yeah. Has disappeared because they took the humans out.
Speaker 2: (22:55)
Right. That's what happens. Yeah. Everything is program. Well, everything's programmed, right? I mean the, from the music to the, you know, I can plug in, I, I could run a radio station from here without like in an hour I could queue up a year's worth of music and a year's worth of ads and a year's worth of news and foot put it all in right. Run an RSS feed in with an audio track. And here we go. Right. I mean, I could create a radio station now as opposed to having to put up a stick, find local advertisers, find a local jock that does it or jock it. Right. That comes in. Yeah. And does this stuff, I mean, yeah. It's, it's so interesting
Speaker 1: (23:30)
Is sorry, sorry to interrupt you, but what's missing. Oh, go. Is the mistakes. Right? So like it's cool that we can do it, but when you take the human out and this is the same thing we learned by the way at lately with the artificial intelligence, which is a annoy many of our customers, but we know that a robot needs a human in order for the zing to happen. And it's the same understanding, right? Like when you, when we talked about giving permission, people permission to be themselves, it's the same idea when you put a human in the mix and um, allow for the, the unexplainable. Okay. The unpredictable it's it's not just one plus one equals three it's one plus one equals 30. Yeah,
Speaker 2: (24:20)
Yeah, yeah. And we miss that. I mean, but still AI has its place. I mean, you guys use it lately, so, so how does that, how does that work? Kate, talk to me a little bit about that.
Speaker 1: (24:31)
Yeah. So, you know, we, um, where do I start so I, um, when I used to own a marketing agency, Phil, I, I had this feeling that whenever I was creating long form content for customers, that it was just getting kind of wasted. So say I would write a blog, spend four hours doing that. And then maybe someone would be like, Hey, here's the title of the blog, read, read our and dump it on a link on a website somewhere. And I was like, boy, we gotta make more out of this. And so this was, this was the pillar concept before Gary V thanks so much. Um, and it was this idea of like, boy, I just worked my off on that. How can I milk it? You know, more so lately was constructed around that idea, which by the way I did manually, um, I did an experiment with Walmart when, when I had an agency and I, I used this idea and got them 130% ROI year over year for three years.
Speaker 1: (25:28)
So I knew that there was value there. And, you know, with lately we, we automated that process. So I'll just kind of explain it to you guys without try, try not to be at commercial is what I'm trying to do here. But now I'm being OB too and vague. So here we go. Um, lately reads your analytics from any social channel you give us access to, and it's looking at what, what messaging gets you the highest engagement. And it specifically is reading for ideas and thoughts and keywords and sentence structures. And it builds a writing model based on what it learns. Then when you feed it long form content like a blog or a video just like this, right. Would automatically do that again.
Speaker 1: (26:11)
It'll transcribe the video and then take the writing model, read it. And it's looking for the one liners that you, or I say here, pulls them into quotes for a social post and clips up the video of what, when you set it and adds it to the social post. Right? And so the idea is, can we use these, um, in inside snippets, as movie trailers, as lead gen to drive traffic back to the whole, because there's some mystery there, right? It's not the total summation of the whole. Now a human has to contextualize this a little bit, cuz like it's just a robot. They can run off the rails, but it works. And here's how I know it works. So we don't do any paid ads at lately and no cold calls and no cold emails cuz we that sucks doing to others. You know, the golden rule. I, I never answer a call. I don't know. And um, we have a 98% sales conversion because the artificial intelligence is so good at knowing which one liners you're gonna say today will resonate with my audience. That by the time they are coming our way, they feel connected to us. They know us. They're, they're warm, they're warm leads, not cold. Right.
Speaker 2: (27:27)
Wow. Wow. So, so our humanism, our being ourselves allows us then to connect because we have AI because frankly a lot of times, right. I don't know. What's funny. I don't know what connects. Right. I can't predict anyway, but a computer can, because a computer can see the pattern because a computer can find that stuff. So it takes the best of who Kate is, who Phil is, snips that out, shares it out and then, Ooh, maybe I want some more. Is that right?
Speaker 1: (27:57)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sounds so simple, right? I mean, you know, I know that the CEO of a Agora puls is just at social media world and talking about the mystery of analytics for social media and to us, that's a big duh, because we eliminated the mystery a long time ago because it's not about clicking and shares and data. It's about the words, all communication is about what words are you using to get someone to do what you want them to do. Right. That's the whole point of honey, can you take out the trash to, you know, Lauren, can you, um, update the sales numbers
Speaker 2: (28:37)
Do so what are the magic words? Kate, give it to me. What have we got? Top 10 words. What have we got? No, I'm just kidding. Right? I say that. No, I'm teasing. I have one for you because that's what people, well, gimme one, what do you got?
Speaker 1: (28:47)
Uh, peeing. My pants is, is, is my number one hashtag because it's
Speaker 2: (28:53)
One your pants okay. Well that, that will, I will retitle this video then to tape or pan. OK. I got it.
Speaker 1: (29:05)
But that's because, so what we use hashtag we learn to use hashtags, um, because the AI, our AI told us that hashtags that are designed to contextualize an idea and, and augment it as commentary versus hashtags that are designed to just glom onto somebody's top idea have exponential more engagement. So when Gary Vaynerchuck tweeted about lately, I wrote hashtag peeing my pants. I, I may or may not be peeing my pants right now. And that's why. Right. So
Speaker 2: (29:40)
I love that. No, but that hold on. That makes that's so interesting, right? Because the, how traditionally we think about hashtags as a category, as like an I CQ or IRC channel, right. A slack channel nowadays. Right. I'm dating myself again with IRC and I CQ, but really right. That's all we're at now. Slack is I CQ IRC. It's just hilarious. Right. But, and they got, they got a billion dollars from Salesforce. Why did we? Which they should. Right. why didn't no. Why, why didn't we just keep it going? Right. Cause we could have spent a hundred bucks and probably bought the code from IRC a whole nother anyway. Right. Probably slashed that too. But that's a whole nother story. Um, right. We're old Kate. Sorry. Mostly me anyway. Right back on track here. So that's right. Oh see, use my words for me, Kate. Thank you. Right? Yes. So been
Speaker 1: (30:32)
All my life. So
Speaker 2: (30:34)
Right here, Kate's waiting for you. So here we go. Right? So, so interesting though that we can use AI to be more human. That is so freaking awesome. I love that. Cause I have to tell you, I push back against tech sometimes and I'm a tech guy. I wanna be really clear. I love tech, but I watch it get abused. Like the E the messages I get on LinkedIn make me wanna cry.
Speaker 1: (30:59)
Oh my God.
Speaker 2: (31:00)
Because they're so bad. I had a person that was on my show a couple weeks ago that has automation set up. I sent him a connection request. He replied and then automation hit me with three more crappy message.
Speaker 1: (31:13)
I'm like,
Speaker 2: (31:13)
You're like, why? Like, come on, dude. We, you know me,
Speaker 1: (31:18)
You know, turn your
Speaker 2: (31:19)
Automation off. Right? Like turn this stuff off, use it for good. Instead of evil dude.
Speaker 1: (31:25)
We're so it's because we're so lazy, Phil and self included, you know, like it's, I, I say this to my team all the time. The, the hard way is the way, the hard way is the way. Yeah. You know? Yes. We have 9,000 email addresses and yes, we could send some blast emails, but I know that if you go one by one, you take the time to look up each person and start a conversation with them. It's, it's the difference between, um, building listeners versus building fans. Right. That's my personal Uber power. Right? Like, and I'll give, I'll give you guys an example to, just to brag for a second. So before I went to XM, I helped start a little radio station in Wilmington. Uh, North Carolina called the penguin hard to say the penguin penguin, you're listening to the penguin, Jesus Christ. Um, I said that a lot.
Speaker 1: (32:15)
And I went down there and I had an evening show and I was also the, um, music. Uh, I was the pro the, excuse me, the production director. So the person in charge of the commercials and also the drops in between the station that, that IDs, the station, you know, those are constructed by a human. And we were in a, in a Southern town, triple a, is my format, adult album, uh, alternative radio. So it's, you know, music that, um, usually we rank like in the 20th, most listen to stations in towns where like classic rock and, and country are first, right? So it's not very popular, but really interesting radio. And when I left and went to XM, they got the book, the Arbitron book came out six months later. And my program director called me and said, you're number one. And I said, what?
Speaker 1: (33:07)
Uh, unheard of. So I'm number one in this format in evening time slot, unheard of against, you know, these other stations. And I was like, how the hell did that happen? And he's like, you tell me, what did you do? And I said, oh, well, I, I threw out your playlist. First thing I did. Right. So what I did was every day, I'd come in before an hour and I would take the four hours of music and I would rearrange all the songs and I would do it so that the new songs and the old songs bled into each other. So that, um, every time you heard a new song, your nostalgia kicked in and your recognition that there was some kind of, um, callback. So it felt like there was a connection to the, to the music, right. From song to song. And then it was my, I was live.
Speaker 1: (33:54)
So it was my voice on the air. So I made all my mistakes and did my things we're talking about here. And then it was my voice in between, or my ideas in between all the drops were mine. And so I could control how they sounded so that there was no train wrecks and that everything was, um, constructed by a human, you know? And, um, and that's, that's when I that's the first time that I understood that the power of what I was doing, you know what I mean? Like I had no idea. Yeah. And in fact, I didn't even really recognize it until a few years, a few years later, Phil, like, to be able to talk about it in this way.
Speaker 2: (34:35)
Sure. Well, often, right. Our best things are things either a, we take it for granted or B, we don't even recognize. Yeah. Right. It's so strange. That's such a superpower, Kate.
Speaker 1: (34:46)
Yeah. Thank you. So what much, you know, and, and it's, this is the, we were talking about being seasoned. This is what's being seasoned, gets you. It gets you the hope. Hopefully if you're living, you know, the life you can live, it gives you the wisdom, the ability, the perspective to understand where you've been and how to use it, to get where you're going.
Speaker 2: (35:06)
Yeah. Well, experience is a great teacher and that experience is life changing. The fact that lately exists is proof that being human and seasoning that with some tech can really be powerful. I dig that that's really cool, Kate.
Speaker 1: (35:23)
Yeah. Thanks. And you know, it's the, you can hear this and just so it's not, so it's clear to everybody else is the, the metaphor we're talking about humans saying technology, it's playing through my whole life. right. Every, literally every section. Um, so I'll give you another example, Phil. I don't know a lot of people don't know this about me, but I have a partial permanent disability.
Speaker 2: (35:46)
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: (35:47)
Yeah. So I, I can't type at all or touch my phone without extreme debilitating pain. And so I use voice activate the software to talk to my computer all day long. It's called dragon naturally speaking.
Speaker 2: (36:03)
Yeah. I remember that from nuance. Yeah, for sure. From
Speaker 1: (36:05)
Nuance. That's right. So I use the one for paraplegics, totally hands free. And I cheat because I hear what I say all day long. Right. I still talk for a living. How is that?
Speaker 2: (36:18)
how awesome is that?
Speaker 1: (36:20)
Speaker 2: (36:21)
Depends on your perspective, right?
Speaker 1: (36:23)
It's
Speaker 2: (36:23)
Perspective. Perspective.
Speaker 1: (36:25)
Yeah. That's really cool. And we're talk, I know, I always, when I'm talking about, when I'm giving marketing messaging classes, I always say, read your copy out loud because people hear you in their heads when they're, when they're reading your copy. And it's because I do it. Like, I, I know when I sound like a total, you know, and, um, so does my team yeah's
Speaker 2: (36:49)
But that level of self awareness though, is so interesting. So I will tell you, I, I may not, uh, I don't, I don't speak in to type, but I will tell you, I can see the letters on the keyboard. As I say my words a lot of times, because I learned to type when I was in the Navy in 1992, I had to learn to type 20 words a minute. And the only way I could do that is if I'm and I was at, I was at zero words a minute, cause we had a touch type that was like, most people say, well, just hunt. No, no, hold on, listen. They actually removed the caps of the keys and would change the letters. So that a was actually a P and stuff like that because you have, I had to learn how to type basically underwater in the submarine, in the dark.
Speaker 2: (37:29)
That was my, that was my metaphor. Yeah. That was my metaphor. So anyway, yeah. So I learned how to type my pleasure. Um, I learned how to type by seeing where all the, like I can type now I can type a hundred words a minute with my eyes closed because I know where the keys are. Once I get home row really clear though, once I get home row, I get that. But I see my words too, like, and, and maybe it's only a, a fraction of a second mm-hmm before it comes outta my mouth, but I see those words and I'm not, I would, I won't say that I edit cuz anybody that knows me knows I don't edit, but I'm aware of it. Like I'm aware of what I say. So that's, that's so interesting because it's so different. Yeah. It's so different than what I just type, like, if I don't think about it, if I just type, like, if I'm just like a, like sometimes I'll type up show notes. Right. Mm-hmm and I'll just type and it's totally different then when I'm typing words that I, that I'm when I'm speaking. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (38:24)
So different. It's some kind of synesthesia that is right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it reminds me too. So, so I was a line cook all through high school and college cuz you got two meals a day free. And so that's was affordable to me. Um, and I, you know, I learned a lot about visual, you know, how it looks in the plate and all that kind of stuff. It's all true. Right. And what you're saying obviously applies to words as well. Like how people, people read with their eyes, just like they eat with their eyes.
Speaker 2: (38:54)
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool. So, so Kate, so you gave us the best and worst advice at the beginning with, you know, really be yourself, right? Don't don't cuss is BS. Just be who you are. So as you're leaving us here today, how take us home Kate, like what's what would you say if you wanna get started on the path towards being yourself, where would you start?
Speaker 1: (39:21)
Well, um, I mean, you, you have for me, boy, that's a hard question. You have to go down. I have to go down to get, go up. Personally. I have to fall all the way down personally. Now in order to learn from that, I was lucky enough to have they happened to be female, but two really great female mentors who, when they brought me on, they, they gave me the permission to, to fall because they knew that my worst mistake was still gonna be great. Right. And that's something I've talked to my team about before is like, I am hard on them. And it's because I already know that they're twelves. I already know that. Right. So I don't really care. I mean, what they, I don't, I don't give people a lot of control cuz I don't like to be controlled, which you know, doesn't work for everybody. A lot of, a lot of people need way more guidance than I personally be able to give. But if you, if you don't let somebody learn from making mistakes and really poor mistakes, really mistakes, um, then they can, they can't grow. So it's like a two way street. Like you need to be willing to go all the way down or, or down at all. And you have to find the right people who will celebrate you in the as well as the good, right?
Speaker 2: (40:52)
Yeah. Yeah. Find some good people and surround yourself with them. There you go. That's great advice, Kate. So friends, if you're watching, if you're listening, if you're thinking, wow, Kate is fricking awesome and I want to be more human. I encourage you to go to lately that AI check out the tool. It's really cool. The team is much like Kate, every person that I've interacted with there is fantastic. Uh, Chris bro is on Chris. Hi buddy. So he's really cool guy. So, uh, but for real, like they're legit, the software is fantastic. Watched all the demos. I am excited for folks to give it a shot and Kate I'm so glad. You're my friend. Thank you for being here today. I so appreciate you.
Speaker 1: (41:31)
Yeah. I love you. You uh, you really helped me today and put a smile on my face and I I'm so grateful. Thanks Phil.
Speaker 2: (41:39)
My pleasure. Thank you Kate. Thanks for watching everyone. Now go check out.
